Komplete Kontrol UI Issues In Logic Pro With Third-Party Plugins

Edmund Goschy

Hi folks,

I tested this behaviour on my M1 Mac Studio and on a Intel MacBook Pro, both running Sonoma 14.2.

In Logic 10.8.1 (and MainStage, too), the KompletKontrol UI is broken with many 3rd party-plugins (as on the screen shots above) on both machines. With NI instruments, the UI is working as expected.

When I load KompletKontrol as AUv2 plug-in on the same machines in Ableton Live Lite 11.3, everything works fine and the UI is displayed correctly both with 3rd party and NI instruments.

So maybe it is not a Sonoma or NI problem, but an issue in Logic Pro / Mainstage? Maybe someone can test it with another DAW with AU plug-in support?

However, I hope it is solved soon, it's really annoying...

Best regards

Ed

Kymeia

Thanks I did also try in Studio One which also has AU support, this is definitely confined to Logic (and MainStage by extension). So it’s not specific to M series chips though, that is new information so very useful. You did say both your systems are Sonoma so I think that’s still a factor though.

ivicam

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/116061#Comment_116061

I tested it with Apple's sample app that demonstrates how to use their new AU hosting API to host both AUv2 and AUv3 audio units. I can't post the link to the sample code, but it can be found by googling "Incorporating audio effects and instruments".

Exactly the same issue is present when KK is loaded inside this sample app. So I assume that Logic and MainStage use this newer API for AU hosting while the other hosts (e.g. Live) use the older v2 hosting API. And as KK is apparently the only AU with this particular problem, it's probably some weird unexpected edge-case interaction between KK and this new hosting API. If NI developers reads this topic, this may be useful info to exchange with Apple devs.

Kymeia

Thanks very useful to know, I have passed this on

Matthew_NI

This is helpful. The issue has been reported to Apple, and the investigation continues over there. The signs point to it being something affecting KK, but not something KK itself can fix.

Matthew_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/113340#Comment_113340

Pasted from another thread:

Perhaps this helps shed some light on why not everything can, or should, be so soon as you'd think or like.

Though a new OS is in beta prior to release, it has often been the case that breaking changes continue right up until the final public version, and that beginning work on fixes for products so highly interdependent prior to this point is often inefficient and wasted effort, as the goalposts can and do shift out from under us.

Only once a final public version, with no further changes, of an OS has arrived, does it make sense to begin the the effort to migrate to official support for that OS.

In this case, Sonoma released on September 26th. We began our efforts, which are ongoing, and as mentioned, expected to land in Q1. The effort is twofold.

Firstly, it's not just our own software (Komplete Kontrol 3) at play here. As you know, KK3 is itself a host, so we also have to consider the impact of any OS level changes on thousands of plug-ins that could be hosted in KK. This leads to an infinite number of variables, and takes time to sensibly and methodically approach as wide a number of scenarios as possible. Sometimes, we may identify a problem, but even if it affects us as a host, the fix is specific to that plug-in manufacturer's implementation rather than being anything we can fix. And so the feedback loop continues as we talk to that partner and help them report and diagnose on their end.

Secondly, when adding official support, oftentimes we find issues have been introduced by a new OS. Sometimes, as is the case now, those issues are inadvertent and present in the OS itself, and therefore must be reported to the manufacturer of that OS, in order that they may fix them so that those fixes are not passed on to our users after we claim official support.

Kymeia

So I assume that Logic and MainStage use this newer API for AU hosting while the other hosts (e.g. Live) use the older v2 hosting API

It would be useful to test that assumption. Certainly I can’t, as much as I have tried, replicate this bug in Live 11 with the AU. So that could mean Live is using the older v2 hosting API. However it does also host Au3 plugins, would it not need to be using the newer hosting API to do that? If so then it might not be the API that is at fault, or at least not wholly?

It might help if NI could contact Ableton to find out. It might also be a good idea to test this in the Live 12 beta because I would not be at all surprised if they have updated the AU hosting API to the latest version in that. Unfortunately I don’t have a copy to test yet (although I will probably get the update at some point while the preview offer is still running but need to get Xmas out of the way first)

ivicam

The old V2 hosting API can host AUv3 and vice versa. For the former, google “Hosting Audio Unit Extensions Using the AUv2 API”. Everything is transparently bridged between v2 and v3 world.

I doubt Live switched to the new API in 12. V3 api is in Swift/Objective-C while the older one is in C.

Kymeia

Thanks good to know

Edmund Goschy

Hi,

just tested Komplete Kontrol with 3rd party plug-ins on a Intel MacBook Pro running Ventura, Software Versions are the same as on my Mac Studio running Sonoma.

On the Mac Book everything worked fine, on the Mac Studio the Komplete Kontrol UI is unusable (as described above).

I upgraded the MacBook Pro to Sonoma (did not change anything else) and the UI is broken too, so it seems really to be a Sonoma issue.

Hope, Apple will fix this asap, I'm starting to get annoyed..

Best regards

Ed

ivicam

@Edmund Goschy

”Hope, Apple will fix this asap, I'm starting to get annoyed..”

And why do you think it’s Apple’s fault when only Komplete Kontrol has this particular bug?

Scott McFayen

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/113321#Comment_113321

I'm getting this as well and I'm still on Ventura.

JesterMgee

So why is it this gets attention but the older problem reported well over a year ago in v2 of KK where MANY plugins in Ableton Live also do not show their GUI in KK with VST3 versions of plugins has not gained any attention???

😡

Movix

Just want to add to this thread that the same thing is happening to me. Running macOS 14.3.1 Sonoma, with latest Komplete Kontrol 3.1.2. Logic Pro 10.8.1. Every plugin I load into the Komplete Kontrol plug-in causes either complete blackout or partial blackout inside the window. Sometimes I can click on invisible buttons, but its a fools errand.

Kymeia

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/133568#Comment_133568

Seriously this needs fixing, even if part of the issue is Apple updating their AU hosting API surely it is also on NI to update their plugins to work within such updates. We don't get this issue with any other plugins.