Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
-
Topic: tagging within the browserKK3 has less tagging capability than KK2.9. This is known. It's because as we transitioned to the new browser, not all capabilities were yet prioritized, and yet implemented. Why? Very few people use those features, so the effort up front wasn't warranted. Most users consume the presets as they are.
Matt I don't know what the figures are but here is a perfect example of how to get misled by statistics. You may well be right that the majority of users are happy just to 'consume' NKS rather than create them themselves. However the NKS they 'consume' are not just NKS created in house or by NKS partners, there is a thriving community of amateur taggers and NKS content creators as you well know. While this may only amount to a few of us numerically, the impact we have on the rest of the community is comparatively huge. There are still many plugins that are created by developers who are not NKS parters and many users who are keen to get NKS mappings for those plugins, both for control and also to be able to use KK as a preset librarian. We have even fixed NKS content that was broken by poor implementations (eg Softube have still not updated their plugins to support migration so I provided fixes for many of them, I did the same for the botched NKS mappings in Unfiltered Audio plugins). Case in point, the very first complaint I saw on the forum about KK3 was in relation to a Baby Audio plugin that is not a NKS partner company. Your NI and partner plugins generally (although not always) work out of the box with NKS, it is our role to make sure the rest also work reasonably well within the ecosystem. The community benefits from that, and so does NI.
So this is more of an example of how a small quantity of something can have a qualitatively huge impact. I honestly think it's those of us who do this who have played an important role in keeping your product alive over the years. Please do not underestimate that. Tagging should be given a much higher priority than it is.
6 -
I agree - we definitely took that into consideration, and the logic still holds.
Komplete Kontrol reports the names of content hosted within*, which helps us build up a picture of exposure across the otherwise exponential number of variables that can occur as a host within a host.
Of course, I'm not at liberty to divulge specific numbers, as much as I'd like to, but you might imagine the picture evolves from hundreds to thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of users doing and/or not doing things.
The hardest thing for me to stomach in making the initial transition without the tagging capabilities was the impact it would have on authors, and subsequently the visually impaired community, who rely on such authors to make more products Accessible when used with Komplete Kontrol soft/hardware. It only really works if we're able to resolve the issue in the near term, which certainly I intend to. For instance, in Q4, we're already starting work on implementing Accessibility support for Kontrol S MK3 via the new NI Accessibility Helper App launched earlier this year. It wouldn't launch this year, but likely early next. I'd put tagging in the same bucket.
It's also ironic that despite having more long term goal of being more open (this is good for business), there are temporary setbacks for the community of amateur taggers and content creators you represent in your post here. I'm not making excuses - that's on me.
*for the 90% or so who opt in to anonymous data tracking
0 -
So I just updated and had a poke around.
I can't stand the browser we are presented with. It's feels like something is in the way I just want it to go away. I would much rather see a sidebar basically like how Kontakt has always done it. It's clear who ever designed it is a Ableton user because it's the only program I've seen where everything is on the right hand side. I use KK alot to get inspired and send me in directions I wasn't intending. it's extremely important to me even though I'm not a NI keyboard with screen user....
I really dislike the fact it reverts to a minimalist view every time. Personally I want to always see the keyboard and the information bar in a Kontakt instrument for example. Messing around with obscure icons to open and close certain view options is like sticking pins in my eyes.Kontakt has a set default mode, that would be handy.
Komplete Kontrol had the potential to be THE centrepiece of the entire Komplete universe. I could even see a future where you could directly download and purchase instruments through it......obviously thats never going to happen.
I might start phasing it out if this is the direction we're going in. Genuinely sad.
4 -
I join in the great disappointment presented here.
Mainly to the simultaneous availability of presets and modification of the open plug-in. Tags too.
KK is my library where I use ALL my virtual instruments, except the drums because of the separate outputs. Everything has been said, and I don't have the “smooth talk” of Matthew. To be honest, I'm too angry.
But... Already, there is communication in place and it is really appreciated.
And above all: I was able to reinstall V2.9 so I can find the features that I like so much. And that makes me really happy. This is my first vintage plugin.
V3 is a mistake for me, I hope NI will fix it. Wake me up when it does
2 -
Matthew
The reason I say 'smooth talker' is because I get that feeling from your responses, that you are trying to 'smooth' things over. Which is understandable, so please don't see it as an attack.
Why oh why did you release KK so unfinished? You must have known this reaction would happen? It's unfathomable that a company with NI's resources, such deep pockets, with 10 years to play with, could have released this in this state. It's beyond bizarre.
I mean there is a tipping point right? Where you have to hold up your hands and admit this is a failure like Kore 1 was? You have alienated just about everyone of your serious customers and you must have known that was going to happen. That's the really odd bit.
Anyhow I'm done. I went through the Kore journey and now the Komplete fiasco journey. I hope one day Native Instruments ..and I genuinely mean this..returns to its former glory.
3 -
I could even see a future where you could directly download and purchase instruments through it
Sorry but please no...! I would really hate it becoming a shop front like IK products are
4 -
I have been through every NKS bank I have and can't find any examples of where sub banks are working except for Reaktor, but Reaktor sub banks are created inside Reaktor itself, so that is a different thing. However this does show how sub banks should look in KK, it's actually very neat, when it works - so I think this may be a bug then:
0 -
Also the sub bank field is present in the edit tab and there is no difference in how this appears for sub banks that are working and those that are not, so again this makes me think there is a bug in how KK is reading and rendering this information
1 -
It seems like. And i know your skills from Kore 2 times😊
1 -
I've shared this idea in other threads...
Having the desktop GUI incorporate the new instrument panel as presented by the on-device MK3 displayed would provide a standardized size and aspect ratio that would lend itself nicely to a scalable, one-window (simultaneous browser+instrument+macros) view.
Seems this would answer some of the complaints in this thread.
If you wanted deeper editing, another click would bring up a separate window with the full "legacy" instrument panel.
Plus the many users of Komplete collections would enjoy a bit more of the NKS2 experience without having purchased a new MK3 keyboard.
0 -
Writing this while downloading KK 2.9.4 again...
KK 3 was just... nope
- Browsing in KK3 is harder and confusing. Functions are all over the place
- If using plugins like Battery or Form within KK, I can't drag & drop samples from KK browser anymore
- I can't drag & drop samples from KK browser to DAW anymore
At this point, I'm not interested updating anything NI related, because their agenda seems to be either "let's change everything for the sake of changing" or "let's take away functionalities and sell it as a new"
4 -
Hi Matthew
Thanks for summarising. I've been following the ups and downs of this discussion from the start and I'm grateful to you for sticking with it given the apparent heat it is generating.
Would I be correct in assuming that the new MK3 range of KK keyboards when they are released will REQUIRE KK3 and that this is the likely reason why KK3 has been released at this point in time?
Kind regards
Hywel
0 -
I fully agree. And Machine integration is not anymore a topic too. Perhaps it took too much time for further development. Basically its a new product with less functions but way less usability due to really bad product and software Integration for the whole product line. If i release such software as a company i would rather say people of Komplete Kontrol MK2 need to stay on 2.9.4 and cant update anymore.
0 -
This! In many companies, hardware deployment timelines dictate the software development timelines. From the business side, this makes total sense. It's just – more often than not – a problem for the existing users.
2 -
To start, in my opinion KK Software was basically just a small part of the Maschine software with it's own GUI - only with one sound (chain) - for sure only from the software side without the Hardware Layer and the great Hardware design. So the team developing it has to be pretty small or just some people from the Maschine Team.
Technically the FX-Version, when implementing it, would move KK from Maschine's Sound to Group Layer but with just one group with one sound chain, add. as side effect all parameters also from effects would be mappable, because of the add. controller layer.
For sure it's not that easy because a new file saving format and a browser change is needed (hmm if thinking that also exists in Maschine...), or maybe it was never implemented because FX are not that accessible as instruments within a daw and will break the great daw integration - but if thinking this can't also be the reason because as shown with Softube's Channel 1.
With all that in mind I never understood why NI never created an FX version with proper chain saving, because work was mostly done, and it should have been a quick win with less development effort.
So, the reason it was never done cannot be technical, maybe it was because of management decisions, team leaders with no visions nor technical or product understanding, bad project management, false decisions based on user data, or not optimal team structures.
When looking at Komplete Kontrol 3 Software's current state and reading what’s planned without any released date and the excuses I believe the Software was completely rushed and done within a very short time by a pretty small team (As example interesting to see the browser area which is taken from Kontakt 7 is HiDPI, the actual Komplete Kontrol area including the new KK-Logo – code taken from KK2 - is not HiDPI). For sure the hardware developed was started long ago. Also, as before I am not talking about the Hardware itself, the Hardware Code and the Hardware Layer - it's superb as every time - and not about NKS 2 - I think (hope) it's well designed and it looks great from what I've seen.
The arguments from JesterMgee arguing with Matthew_NI about the bug are completely correct and shows something is not right - also in mind that fx could have been easy implemented years ago and maybe of some structural changes and as an acceptable argument not implementing it earlier, it should have been at least in v3.0 from the start.
About the bug from the beta test forum - it' not about it, this as example just shows that basic user/product understanding, visions and basic standards are not part of this project.
Some ideas for fixes not even mentioned - and normally not worth mentioning, because it is standard:
*) save the settings for width between bank images and actual presets - I don't want to change them every time I open kk
*) why not showing the plugin in its own window and an own window showing banks, presets,... - thinking about multimonitor (for sure as option - thinking about notebook users)
*) the windows size should be limited to max. full screen
PS. I wanted to buy KK MK3 to replace KK M2, but I am waiting and for the first time I will downgrade to an older version.
1
Categories
- All Categories
- 18 Welcome
- 990 Hangout
- 56 NI News
- 493 Tech Talks
- 2.6K Native Access
- 11.9K Komplete
- 1.4K Komplete General
- 3.1K Komplete Kontrol
- 4.1K Kontakt
- 1.4K Reaktor
- 307 Battery 4
- 638 Guitar Rig & FX
- 331 Massive X & Synths
- 800 Other Software & Hardware
- 4.2K Maschine
- 4.9K Traktor
- 4.9K Traktor Software & Hardware
- Check out everything you can do
- Create an account
- See member benefits
- Answer questions
- Ask the community
- See product news
- Connect with creators