Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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@Matt_NI is Matt Lara, one of our fantastic product specialists.
@Matthew_NI is I. Sorry for the confusion! You can spare him your (valid) ire, and tag me with the latter handle.
Firstly, nothing about your responses (or indeed most of the responses here) lands as ******, but instead as valid, understandable feedback. I wouldn't worry. Your tone is much appreciated, and exactly the sort of conversation I appreciate. Someone else accredited me with smooth talking, which is amusing: I think I'd make a horrendous politician. But there is continued conversation to be had, and that's what we're all here for. Much of this we saw coming (hence my transparency on the WHY and WHAT NEXT posts earlier in the thread – and also why I'll publish a forthcoming DevTalks post that can go a little deeper.
We talked to all kinds of users, yes. It is always a challenge to de-prioritize certain features beloved by power users, when those are the users most present in the forums, and in some cases, representing the community (e.g. as a maker and distributor of presets).
But, as I've said, these are things we plan to bring forth - resizing and tagging etc.
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Memory usage has gone up - but not to the extent that we expected it to be problematic - so if those reports persist this will be something we'll continue to look into. As mentioned elsewhere, we fixed major memory leaks during the beta process (the point of beta being to catch and prevent such things).
One precursor to a dev talks type blog post would be this: part of our tech transition involved a move to Qt (for non technical folks Qt is software tool for creating graphical user interfaces). This sets us up to continue to deliver on a lot more of the user requests our older frameworks couldn't accommodate. Qt is a little more memory intensive, wherein lies the tradeoff.
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One can only explain who/why decisions were taken, and what/where things go from here.
The former does not been to be liked, so long as it is understood.
The latter is informed by the conversations happening here, and elsewhere.
The alternative would be not to talk at all, which I'm told has been the issue in years past.
I did let my wife know someone considered me a smooth talker, and she laughed in my face. Smooth talking is decidedly not one of my soft skills :-)
Anyway, thank you.
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This is not something we're able to reproduce - that would be a major bug.
Could you PM me some system configuration details - I'd love to sort this out and see if we can obtain a repro on our end.
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I'm using Arturia synths without issue. Have been for months.
Do you get a crash report when the crash happens? If so, could you send it to me via PM?
We did at one point in beta have a crash when browsing preset to preset quickly, which we fixed. So I wonder if there's more to the issue.
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Yeah - we have other things to do first like Accessibility, Play Assist and MIDI template management on-device (K MK3 only), and assorted UI/UX improvements (continued resizing support, tagging, other things as noted in this thread). The priority of these things is not changing. They're next up.
However, beyond that, we have channel-strip improvements on our radar, which includes things like FX work. The priority of these things could change up or down.
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Like Vagus wrote, no chance to use kk3 in cubase. Freezing, opening the wrong instrument, never before it was so useless. Why NI? I tried several times to open instruments in kk3 in my DAW (Cubase). But its opening always the next instrument, not he instrument i choose. After scrolling down in the Preset (the wrong preset column) Column, Cubase is freezing and only works after restart. (But only without kk3)
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@Matthew_NI - glad to see resizing and tagging are priorities.
Since I cannot physically use it at all because it won't complete a scan, can I request the scanning routine is a similar level of priority? It hangs every time on iZotope Neutron 1. After a kill process it restarts into the browser, but no plugin will open, telling me I need to rescan which is a permanent loop.
Also you need to add Reaktor as a host for sorting, so the user can search ALL Reakor synths only.
Here's hoping that third time is the charm... eventually!
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After ten years at iZotope, I joined the Hardware and NKS software team at NI to be part of the solution.
Where there have been criticisms of slow progress in the past, there is now life, as updates return.
...Updates to products the internet had called "dead" such as Traktor, Kontrol, and... [insert other].
...Updates to our NKS SDK to improve the content experience.
...Updates that take into consideration a huge number of long-standing feature requests
Those updates include major technology transitions by necessity. I'll pick on resizing as an example:
- Users have wanted it for a long time. Easy to understand why.
- As a host of plug-ins, resizing is not a monolithic topic. It breaks down at least three ways:
- Resize the host shell itself
- Resize the browser as a component within the host shell
- Resize the hosted content as a component within the host shell
- In transitioning to new UI frameworks, on which we could iterate resizing, we prioritized the most common and urgent use case (hosted content) first, and will move back up the list with time. I'll make no apologies for introducing support for resizing, nor will I make apologies for prioritizing the most important aspect of resizing first, and nor will I make apologies for being transparent with our plans to move on to other aspects of resizing next.
By all means, you can bring forth past frustrations as long as you understand there's little I can do to change the past, whereas I can continue to implement progress, and to be present and explain things as we go.
That –to you– this lands as smooth talk rather than my best efforts to help, is perhaps a moment for self reflection, since ad hominem insults help no one.
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Hi everyone,
Here a Kore 2 User and Komplete Kontrol 1 and 2 user. It makes me sad when i see the potential of ideas and products you came up with in the past. I dont want to argue why what happend etc. JUST ONE THING: Please tell your Managers and the Private Equity Funds you need developers to make a good product. This is absolute horrible what you‘ve been pushed to release here. If those investors dont have the intention to let you build good products then they should leave the idustry as fast as they came in.
good luck guys 🍀
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Hi Matthew, thanks for reply!
I have only Windows basic report that program is not responding.
Aparently REAPER can't handle new KK SW, and I dont know why.
I'm very sad with this, cause I intended to buy new Kontrol S61 MK3 (I have MK2)
But KK 3.0 Software Inside REAPER is unusable.
The plugin just freezes and I noticed it occurs mainly when I tried to resize window of Arturia plugins, inside KK 3.0.
But it's not the only issue, sometimes it freezes automatically when switching between browser and plugin view. Looks like it is something related to GUI.
I also notice this issue with other plugins inside KK (Reaktor, Kontakt, Massive X, Breaktweaker from iZotope, etc...).
I uninstalled 3.0 and installed 2.9.4 again and with 2.9.4 I have zero issues of crashing or freezing windows.
A curious thing about this is if I setup KK 3.0 to run as dedicated process in REAPER, it's not crashing.
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@JesterMgee and some other people in here. It's understandable to disagree or be disappointed on some aspects of Komplete Kontrol 3.0.0 and your opinion is valued by everyone here but can we take it down a notch?
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So more testing on this sees an increase in CPU usage from 5% to 10%, then returning to 5%. Once I've moved between Native Instruments as a brand, to another, and back a few times, the delay is no longer there.
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We have a fantastic team, hard at work. Company ownership is immaterial: to make money a majority of existing and new users must be happy, and to be happy, they must enjoy using the products.
This new release has already been adopted by far more people than those who've come to offer constructive criticism (and in many cases done so simultaneously in other forums, by way of being heard). There's a lot to be said for Komplete Kontrol 3, even if it doesn't yet have everything everybody wants.
And with regards to the constructive criticism, since the thread evolves and not everyone reads everything, I'll throw some reminder / placeholders of what's come up so far:
- Topic: resizing
- We added support for HiDPI and host content resizing as part of a major UI framework overhaul. This was the highest priority, as it benefits the most users given that KK is a host of content.
- We're going to move on to browser resizing next. This was the second highest priority, when it came to the topic of resizing. It exists already in Kontakt, so will come to KK in due time. After this, we focus on many continued UI and UX improvements on the new framework.
- Topic: tagging within the browser
- KK3 has less tagging capability than KK2.9. This is known. It's because as we transitioned to the new browser, not all capabilities were yet prioritized, and yet implemented. Why? Very few people use those features, so the effort up front wasn't warranted. Most users consume the presets as they are.
- But it IS something we plan to do. It's more acute for a librarian like product such as KK, as opposed to say, Kontakt.
- Topic: drag and drop from within the browser
- If people use samples with KK, it's most of the time to load directly with the Sampler and Audio module. Very infrequently is it to drag samples into a hosted content product (e.g. a granular sampler). The former is still possible, the latter is not, which is unquestionably a regression.
- It's a known issue, again, as the capability has not yet migrated to the new browser due to it being a lower priority.
- Topic: memory usage
- The new UI framework is more memory intensive. This is a net benefit, but based on some of the feedback it seems we need to continue efforts to reduce memory usage, especially for larger session formats.
Those are, I think, the biggest topics of contention.
I think it's reasonable that users who want to see more sooner on resizing, for example, or don't appreciate the regressions over 2.9, are frustrated. Their use cases are in the minority and weren't prioritized for the initial launch - something I'm being very forthcoming and transparent about, as well as the path forward. 2.9 is also available in this thread, so nothing ventured, nothing gained, but also nothing taken away.
All to say: this is far from horrible. If you have specific details, and constructive feedback, this is the forum in which to air them. If you want to complain in general terms, that doesn't really help those of us –like me– who are here to be part of the solution.
3 - Topic: resizing
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I've logged this with our QA team.
It seems like the spike is occurring at a few specific points in the browser flow, but we'll dig in more.
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