Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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It's simply unacceptable to criticize the presence of bugs in beta, given one of the main reasons of a beta program is to provide test coverage for in-progress developments across an exponentially larger number of system configurations. If an issue has slipped through certain test variables, and is found in beta, that's a success in a private forum, not a failure to be flamed in a public forum.
Sorry, 100% acceptable to me.
I understand bugs and betas, been doing it half my life and there are many bugs there which would not uncover themselves until launched on the public. However this was a simple issue that seemed to affect everyone and weas easily noted by just opening a resource monitor and looking at memory usage while using the application. This raises concerns with me because KK should be designed with efficiency as a priority given it iis used in many instances in a DAW, the memory footprint was always a main focus in V2 we could always tell that was well handled. Feels this is now less of a focus.
You will have to forgive my blunt and rather frustrated tone, it is based on YEARS of this kind of "we will improve things later" from NI where promises are made, broken, delayed, long before I suspect you were at the helm of the product and you will read people on the forum time and time again stating to always take what is available now and never count on anything improving or being updated in future, NI can throw all the reps onto the forum to chat away but until something happens that adds counterweight to that problem I am not sure anyone here has too much hope beyond maybe performance and macOS compatibility improvements.
Time will tell, just seems there is no actual real basis on the reasons why except "we have a vision, maybe you will get to like the new direction...". I do not have that vision, it has been heavily blurred over the years and still do not see any real explanation on why the design choice was made or how it is in any way improved?
Anyway, I think my frustrations are very clear and you will certainly have your hands full with like minded users on top of the inevitable bugs. My requests and needs have always been very simple as I actually like how KK currently works, how well designed it was for memory and performance and how fast it was to find a sound and get to work, every single aspect as I see it there is now less functional, I just fail to see or understand where any improvement is unless the benefits solely need an MK3.
Change my mind...
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I have been waiting for a version for years with MORE PRESET BROWSING SPACE, and a resizeable main window. I guess I'll keep waiting a few years more.
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I think productive conflict is fantastic under the right circumstances.
Indeed, you've a right to your opinions, but not to mislead in public, on which matter I will persist.
As someone with privileged and confidential access to a beta testing program, there is no grey area when it comes to what is, and is not acceptable.
To repeat, verbatim: It's simply unacceptable to criticize the presence of bugs in beta, given one of the main reasons of a beta program is to provide test coverage for in-progress developments across an exponentially larger number of system configurations. If an issue has slipped through certain test variables, and is found in beta, that's a success in a private forum, not a failure to be flamed in a public forum.
This is how beta works.
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There are now only 2 presets tagged Pads in my KK 3 system. I am not filtering by one instrument as the improved UI makes clearer.
But something is really wrong. There were thousands of pads, hundreds in one NKS compatible u-he plugin alone, prior to the KK3 update.
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Most users wanted proper resizing specific to the hosted plug-in, hence why this was prioritized first.
The rest will likely come as we build on this new technology stack.
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You may wish to wait, as it appears your database is rebuilding, and/or also perform a plug-in re-scan.
I just tried the pads tag on my end, and I'm seeing presets. Although I'm not seeing Pads for Zebra, so I'll check on that.
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Also a weird UI quirk, maybe it was almost this bad in 2.0 but you can't tell if an already gray icon is grayed out.
Are these plugins (Snap Heap, Experiverb) enabled or disabled? It's far too subtle just making them 10% brighter when enabled. If the default icons at least had some color you would have a shot at guessing this state. Please be aware some of us are using this UI in brightly lit rooms and some of us have less than perfect vision.
At least if my plugin is raum I can see the raum icon go completely colorless, and now I know Raum is bypassed.
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I was simply confused about Characters=PADS
On my system with KK2 and my complement of owned products there were only two things tagged CHARACTERS=PADs.
KK2 screenshot fyi.
To give some praise where praise is due, the FONTS are a huge improvement from V2.
I do not miss the left side browser at all. I do wish the new KK4 browser was more like the modern browser in MASSIVE X. I do wish the small version of the plugins could be shown above the current browser instead of having two massively different modes for KK. My monitor has lots of room (25", 5k resolution). Please let me use it.
I do really love the keyboard shortcuts. B and P particularly.
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I think we are agreeing but I could have expressed it better. Uptake of NKS outside of official NI partners will be damaged as NI moves to an even less open model. Hobbyists and enthusiasts can’t backfill to create presets for small dev products. So the fleet of available compatible products gets smaller. NI’s responses in this thread point to them prioritising users who solely tweak presets from products produced by NI partners. It fits the pattern of recent ROMpler type product releases, discontinuation of legacy synths etc.
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I can only repeat my personal frustration here in this thread, underlining the fact again that all the user claims which have been reported so far (and which have been perfectly summarized by JesterMgee) are fully matching with my very bad experiences with the new KK V3.0.0 software.
In fact, this new version not only introduces the end of the MK1 keyboard era, it also means that MK2 keyboard users cannot use their gear to its full potential anymore, even though this was still possible a few days ago. The following changes in the software are most disturbing to me:
- No categories available anymore, neither within the application, nor on the MK2 keyboard (only vendors to be chosen from)
- No Sub-bank browsing available anymore (not sure why the second level of useful bank information has been removed by NI)
- No library logos visible anymore on the application's title screen (to see immediately where you are currently in the editing process)
- No effective views available anymore (browser and plugin windows can no longer be seen simultaneously; tags/subtags cannot be edited at once)
- Still no way to resize the window in a useful way (like it is possible in Kontakt 7 already)
- Reduced database editing capabilities (only tags can be edited anymore, properties are marked as read/only which is a big step backwards)
...and the list goes on...
Even though I was one of the users who was providing personal KK V3.0 feedback and heads-up in another thread (refer to "Any difference on MK2 after update to 3.0? My observations"), I just want to raise my voice here at this point once again, as I really cannot accept what is currently happening.
I spent much money just half a year ago to purchase a new NI MK2 keyboard, and now NI is telling all MK2 users - who might have taken full advantage of the application's and keyboard's possibilities - to forget about all these achievements by forcing them to use a new application version which offers much less functionality than before. Many existing features were simply ignored and taken out of service - just like that.
I really feel offended by NI right now, as they just pulled the carpet out from under my feet. By using the KK V3.0.0 version, I wouldn't be able to maintain my workflow, as all my previous preferences - which took me many hours of work to prepare, e.g. setting up a useful database with customized categories within a useful search structure - have been suddenly destroyed by NI in one fell swoop (and without any warning before installing over the old version and destroying the precious setup). This is the worst move I have ever seen from such a big and well-known company like NI. To be honest, I would never have expected such a "non-customer-friendly" behavior.
That's why I can only give my personal advice to other MK2 keyboard users (maybe reflecting the majority of current KK users out there) NOT to update to the new KK 3.X version and to stay on the last working version V2.9.4, unless NI has finally fixed the application in terms of bug removal, feature parity and functionality until it is usable again as before. That would be the minimum I'd expect to see as a loyal MK2 keyboard user, as otherwise you could really get the impression that NI is forcing ALL customers to throw away their MK1 and MK2 gear and make them go for a new MK3 keyboard.
At least that's my personal conclusion. Still there's some hope that things will get fixed and pulled straight, but you shouldn't hold your breath.
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After ten years of waiting for improvements in Komplete Kontrol I no longer have confidence in the development team of this product. No vision. No creativity.
Matt can smooth talk all he wants, but this is nothing more than an unmitigated disaster. No insight. No innovation. A total and utter car crash. This is what happens when you base your creative decisions on user statistics.
After this you all need to have a meeting. Go into the archives at NI and have a look at the work of James Walker Hall, previous visionary at NI. You might learn something...
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Please do, this is the difference, a lot of user banks in particular are organised into sub banks so this is important. You can also see that the browser experience is much better in 2.9.4 with all text visible instead of being truncated
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I can't find any example so far of where sub banks are selectable in KK3 - can you point me to one please?
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The Ugly was Eli Wallach (Tuco)
Clint Eastwood was (of course) The Good
☺️
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I don't post much here. I don't NI bash, and there's a lot of that about. I've been a mostly happy NI camper for 15 years. Many of your excellent products are in daily use here. So with that in mind:
Komplete Kontrol 3 is an embarrassment. It could be the worst product NI have ever released.
KK has never worked nearly as well as a browser as Kore Player did. It's had basic, basic problems from day one, such as the ability to see more than 2 results in common scenarios - since 1.0 that have never been fixed. A simple registry hack used to work to have a fixed larger window, but even that doesn't any longer. You guys never bothered to allow that preference, and instead somehow managed to copy and paste Kontakt 7 code into Komplete Kontrol yet actively removed the ability to resize, to give a chance to see what we're doing.
You actively went out of your way to give a worse user experience.
And there's still other basics missing. For reasons that pass understanding, Reaktor still doesn't have a proper browser. KK could step in, but it's useless - you can search one ensemble or all of them, nothing in between (excepting the core library bundle). You can't search Razor and Monark, for example. You never thought to add a simple Reaktor tag to show / search all products in that host.
I shan't be using it in its current form, but this isn't a matter of choice - I physically cannot use it. It hangs every time on a plugin search on iZotope Neutron 1. When quit process and relaunch, the browser is there but no plugins can be loaded. None. It tells me to rescan, rinse and repeat.
This should never have been released in its current form. Whatever your internal priorities are, they are wrong. For the love of God, make this damn thing - the THIRD attempt after many, many years - functional on a basic level.
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