Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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But the more we use our voices for constructive criticism, or feature suggestions, the more NI can listen. If we just shout and say "I'm not going to use it," then nothing will change
Happy you chose to be optimist, but here is where we think differently.
In my opinion/experience it is the exact opposite: the only way they’ll change their mind is if they will see their decisions lead to low sales and users not using their products. User’s feedback or feature suggestions never made NI move a finger. And the communication put in place here doesn’t differ: for them they are just rants of users just wanting more and more (which between, is really not the case here: it’s just users not wanting less and less… as I said, we are not talking about new features here, but about things they removed)
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I don't disagree - lower sales is fine, but KK is a free product. Lower usage equals the same thing, though - and I'm sure that would have an impact. I'm just saying engaging with NI is a good way to increase delivery of the features you/we want.
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We all do - it's the team and I who are making the decisions about what to do with our products though.
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To answer the bolded question: yes, of course we plan to continue to support VST hosting, irrespective of who made the VST in question. The new keyboard even supports VST3ParameterInfo, a function that allows a VST to declare basic parameter types. It isn't close to full NKS, but basic things (e.g. a toggle) do declare and are shown. This is an expansion of VST support, not a step back.
You seem rather worried we'd disallow 3rd party participation in our ecosystem in general, but the opposite is true. Almost 50% of the usage in KK is 3rd party, and Native Kontrol Standard (NKS) already includes more than 1200 products, with many more coming all the time.
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Au contraire: I'm here to continue explaining why we prioritized what we did, and what's coming next.
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As it keeps getting lost in the discourse (which –given time– I'd much rather become a dialogue), I'd like to repost again a summary of the main feedback, and next steps.
- We've made a major tech transition, partly to allow for us to build more things users want (e.g. resizing)
- We have not yet brought everything forward, and where not, I've explained why (e.g. prioritize the most used features first, and then continuously improve). I don't expect that all users necessarily like the prioritization, but all deserve to hear the explanations I'm providing. We're all human, but I think there are constructive ways to exchange facts and feelings, and thank those of you who're doing so.
- The main complaints as of now are:
- RESIZING:
- What: we have transitioned to a UI framework that allows us to support HiDPI and resizing. We focused on supporting host content resizing, as this was the most hotly requested feature.
- Feedback: users also want to see browser resizing, and KK shell resizing.
- What next: we plan to take on browser resizing as a next priority (Kontakt 7 already does this). KK shell resizing remains an open question, as there are interdependencies with the host content, which itself already resizes.
- BROWSING:
- What: we implemented the new visual browser seen in Kontakt 7
- Feedback: some users use the browser to organize samples they then drag/drop into hosted content (e.g. a granular sampler) and are no longer able to do so.
- What next: we plan to add a way to import samples from the new browser into host content
- SCANAPP:
- Feedback: some users are reporting hangs or crashes with specific content. Note that we tested with 10s, 100s, 1000s of products, but the variables are exponential, and issues can occur.
- What next: we will look at the bugs filed against specific reports, and also some general improvements (e.g ability to exclude from list).
- MEMORY USAGE:
- What: the new Qt user interface framework unlocks a lot of possibilities (some already realized, like scaling and resizing) but is more memory intensive than previous (which was fixed bitmaps).
- Feedback: some users are reporting an increase in memory usage too great for their needs
- What next: we will continue to profile and reduce memory where possible - this is not one specific thing, but a general effort you can look for in release notes
- TAGGING:
- What: we implemented the new visual browser seen in Kontakt 7
- Feedback: since the new browser does not yet support the full user tagging workflow, people who make use of this tag editing capability (especially on behalf of preset communities) are stuck on KK 2.9 until support is added
- What next: we plan to add tag editing capabilities and eliminate the regression in the coming months.
- RESIZING:
Note that despite my transparency, the one thing I'm not at liberty to say is exactly when each feature mentioned above (and others that crop up) will ship, just yet. But what I can say is that the browser resizing, scanapp and memory topics are things we're starting work on this year, amidst other topics specific to the new keyboard (Play Assist on device, MIDI templates on device, Accessibility support).
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Please see my above post, linked here.
It's a misconception that there are minds needing to be changed. I'm already here explaining the continued roadmap in response to the concerns raised.
That will, I hope, continue to be productive as opposed to pitchforks (Halloween is nigh).
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Thank again for the really useful outline - which probably was getting lost.
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As MK1/2 users there are a host of reasons to stick with 2.9.4 for now. Over time the reasons will be addressed and the list will shorten. Great.
That said, has there not been any dialogue/debate internally about giving a little love to the those of us who already use your keyboards? Perhaps in the form of a tweak update of 2.9.4 to implement some of the dead simple tweaks so many of us have waited so long for? And if there was such a debate, what was the rationale for deciding to not do this? It really baffles me, especially considering that MK1 users are unable to update past 2.9.4.
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Matthew, regarding memory usage or however it might be called, kk3.0 compared to kk2.9.4 is not about being more cpu efficient versus being less cpu efficient. It’s about ‘will work’ (v2.9.4) and ‘won’t work a.k.a broken’ (v3.0). I see people having their sessions giving system overload errors with only 2 instances of kk3.0 active on a Mac Studio M2 ultra with 128gb of ram. When they revert back to v2.9.4 they can continue their work, which they can’t with v3.0 . That’s not ‘oh it’s a little more cpu intensive’ that’s just Broken.
looking forward to a fix so that it -hopefully- might become an actual useable piece of software like v2.9.4 is already.
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I’ve just worked on a piece with 29 instances of KK 3.0 housing Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Pro on a Mac Studio M1 64 and not had any overload message problems and I would say the instances loaded faster than they did with 2.9.
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That’s interesting. I was using native instruments instruments , like abbey road drummer, session guitarist acoustic/ukulele , say only 6 instances and I couldn’t continue to work whether I chose 64 samples playback buffer or 1024c where the latter make it like unplayable already. So I had to revert back to 2.9.4, and that’s on an m2max MacBook with 96gb ram.
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Yeah I have a project in Logic with just 6 instances and I'm also not seeing this but clearly there is a problem with so many people reporting it. I'm on a M1 Max btw with 64 GB RAM.
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Is it about M2 processors? Just thinking out loud. Not sure if m1 users have no issues and m2 users do.
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Can we just be clear about the resizing please?
The issue everyone has had for the last 7 years was that you could only see one or two results in the list at the bottom. That was all. This led to a commonly utilised user hack found in the forums that was relatively simple for anyone to implement...chaging the size of a table dimension in the code.
Sure if you can do proper drag out resizing in KK3, great. But that was not the issue.
I believe that one of the reasons for the collective anger right now is that you absolutely refused to do the most simple, simple, simple update, that people were crying out for, for years and years.
Why?
Maybe if you can answer that- honestly- I can let it go and move on and look forward. But right now, I cannot forgive you.
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