Loop Machine Pro questions..

sleepson
sleepson Member Posts: 15 Member

Hello,

I have some questions about Loop Machine Pro, before I pick up GR7 (I already own Komplete 14 Ultimate).

1 - can multiple instances of this be used, IOW, can I use it as a "looper" on a few different tracks or send tracks, basically like any third-party looper plugin?

2 - if YES, can I MIDI map functions from each one, to different buttons on my controller? IE - map the rec/play on "guitar 1" looper to one button, and "guitar 2" to another.. so on and so forth.

3 - if the above are both YES, can this be used without Guitar Rig 7 loaded, as its own plugin?

4 - if 3 is a NO, then how do I suggest that to Native Instruments as a thing that should exist, because I would LOVE to use just Loop Machine Pro for live use, it would be awesome - the Mac OS M-series/Apple Silicon community is in desperate need for an easy to use looper plugin like this.

Most third party plugins are either old (32bit) and/or aren't usable with Apple Silicon, they're out of date - ie Mobius etc.. some of them (MSuperLooper) just crashes my DAW(s!) - clearly unstable and unusable for live work. Ableton Live has a looper plugin, but it's basically a "DIY" thing and that's cool but.. I don't want to HAVE to use Ableton Live.. Enso doesn't map MIDI very easily and has other issues. SooperLooper plugin is old and doesn't easily work. I've tried everything out there. The Super8 looper in Reaper is just awful..


There's an opportunity here for Native Instruments to release Loop Machine Pro as its OWN plugin - IE - not in Guitar Rig - it would be amazing and insanely useful. The Apple Silicon community would eat it up right away.


Any answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated. I'm excited to pick this up, but unsure whether I should just wait for Komplete 15 which will have GR7 in it, right?

But if Loop Machine Pro works the way I want in Q1-2, then I feel like I don't have a choice BUT to upgrade my GR7 already.

Comments

  • Wouter De Muynck
    Wouter De Muynck Member Posts: 217 Pro

    I did a test within GR7 and from what I see you can only run one instance of the Looper (De keep in mind you have 2 looper tracks per looper (A/B)). What you can do of course is add multiple instances of GR7 in f.e. Maschine and only add the looper component. Please note that from the second instance on in Maschine, changes will not be saved to the database, but you have multiple loopers available which are in tempo-sync (if you want). I assume you can assign different MIDI parameters to these instances. FYI, I did not test this in a DAW.

    But you always need GR7 as a host for the looper

    You can download GR7 as a demo from the NI website btw!

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor

    I just learned the hard way that unless you export your recorded Looper Pro content before saving your Bitwig 5 or Cubase 12 projects, the looped content is gone after you close and reopen your DAW. Cant forget to export before closing.

    Ive been testing this constantly for 2 days now, and I've found a couple things: MIDI mapping/learning for the main "rec/play/dub" control is erratic inside at least Bitwig and Cubase. Basic "MIDI learn" doesnt work. I had to create a macro knob inside GR7(advanced controls), set it for momentary/button, then MIDI-learn that macro to make it work.

    So far, overall looper functionality and performance are good, and I've been able to make a few short pieces with it without any crashing or weirdness. I have it on Bitwig 5's main out so that I can capture everything in the DAW, and its a blast. I've been seeking a better looper for a while now, but didnt want to spend $600-700 on a hardware device, so this is a very good place to start.

    The "free" loop capture mode is really nice for long ambient and long freeform guitar pieces. I dont even know the max loop length, but so far Ive captured 5-6 minute loops.

  • Wouter De Muynck
    Wouter De Muynck Member Posts: 217 Pro

    You're correct, the same goes for GR7 as a stand-alone application, you need to save the loop before closing the preset or the application, otherwise the loop is lost. Maybe a nice feature request to save the loop data within the preset or warn before closing.

    Regarding MIDI mapping, I always use the macro controls to learn the MIDI parameters and assign these to the actual GR7 switches. In this way I have the best overview of what's going on.

    I'm also very pleased with the new looper and I'm more than happy it returned to version 7. I was using GR5 as a seperate effect in Maschine to be able to use the "old" looper and this was working. So GR6 first and and GR5 after with only the looper. This was my method to prevent the investment in a (mostly expensive) hardware device. The smallest Boss looper is already 130€... the GR7 upgrade 99€ + all the extra goodies!

    Enjoy 😊

  • sleepson
    sleepson Member Posts: 15 Member

    I didn't realise I can demo GR7 as a GR6 owner?

    I will check it out, but I'm not hopeful it will be practical after reading these comments.

    Only one instance of the looper? That's no good. I would want multiple loopers, one per track for different instruments, so I can adjust volumes and stop/start parts individually at will.

    I understand it needs GR7 as a host for the looper - this is what I think should be removed! It could be an awesome standalone plugin.


    I'm not fussed about the looper deleting content if the DAW is closed/opened - I would expect as much from a real looper if you turned it off without saving the loop.

    I will download the demo and try MIDI mapping etc.. I have basically every DAW. Still trialling some - basic MIDI learn not working is disappointing but I hope can be fixed and included in the future.

    I already have a BOSS RC-600 looper but I am interested in looping live via a DAW and a looper plugin on my MacBook, because the possibilities are so much more extensive. I can use virtual instruments, whatever FX I want.. I want to bring that to my gigs at bars/pubs. The 600 doesn't play very well with other things, and obviously, MIDI keyboards etc aren't of much use as no sound source.. so it makes sense to look for ways to loop at bars and clubs, without the 600.

  • sleepson
    sleepson Member Posts: 15 Member

    I tried the demo of GR7 and gave it a shot, this could be amazing if it:

    • wasn't part of GR7 and was standalone.
    • had a MIDI learn feature


    It has a lot to like but there is potential that isn't being realised.


    How do I tell NI about this? There is an opportunity here for a fantastic standalone product to be sold.

    This would be simply incredible if it could be its own plugin effect (no GR7 as host) and if it had basic MIDI features ie a MIDI learn.

    It has the potential to allow any DAW to become like Ableton Live's "looper" plugin then.

    It crashes in Bitwig though. Worked in Reaper perfectly fine. But Bitwig crashed and said "reload plugins" over and over until I tried another DAW.


    Please offer this as a standalone looper plugin with MIDI learn capability.

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor

    I would seriously dig this Looper as a standalone looper.

    The MIDI-learn feature seems to exist in GR7 (its in the right click context menu), but it just doesnt work.

    Im a Bitwig 5 user and Im able to map MIDI controls via the device panel for GR7 once a macro button is created inside GR7 for rec/play/dub. It doesnt crash for me, and Ive been running it pretty much all day every day for the last 3 days. Are you running GR7 as an individual sandbox in your plugin config?

  • Wouter De Muynck
    Wouter De Muynck Member Posts: 217 Pro

    I think for your setup the new looper is indeed missing some functionalities. You can open a discussion on the forum and add the “feature request” tag. A looper instrument would indeed be a nice addition to the NI portfolio.

    Regarding the demo version, I wasn’t aware of that also until Eddie (NI moderator) informed me and shared the link. Very helpful for existing and future GR users.

  • sleepson
    sleepson Member Posts: 15 Member


    The MIDI learn thing just doesn't work in any DAW I try it in.

    I get the macro stuff to come up at the bottom of the GR7 screen, I can change the dial to a button, I can drag the button to what I want it to do, it even tells me what it will do when pressed.. but I can not map anything to it via a MIDI controller. I click "learn midi" and nothing happens.

    I like the looper and think this would be awesome as a standalone plugin @Eddie_NI - what can we do to get Loop Machine Pro as a standalone plugin, that has MIDI learn capability?

    It would be an amazing addition to the NI lineup, and the product already exists.

    Just let us use it, without it being inside GR7, and with MIDI capability that actually works.

  • Eddie_NI
    Eddie_NI Product Team Posts: 351 mod

    Hi @sleepson

    there are currently no plans to make the Loop Machine Pro a separate product from Guitar Rig 7.

    On the topic of MIDI control:

    Did you set things up as described here in the manual?

    https://native-instruments.com/ni-tech-manuals/guitar-rig-manual/en/tools-components.html#assigning-a-midi-controller-to-loop-machine-pro

    And also the general MIDI setup here?

    https://native-instruments.com/ni-tech-manuals/guitar-rig-manual/en/automation-and-midi-control#midi-control

    You could also try to get it to work first in standalone mode of Guitar Rig 7 instead of as a plugin in your DAW. Maybe that way you could exclude some sources for error.

  • Wouter De Muynck
    Wouter De Muynck Member Posts: 217 Pro

    @sleepson , maybe you are aware, but the choice of MIDI notes is also very important. I noticed some wierd behaviour until a forum member pointed me to this article: https://www.inspiredacoustics.com/en/MIDI_note_numbers_and_center_frequencies

    Grtz,

    Wouter

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 200 Advisor
    edited September 2023

    I had the same initial experience, re MIDI learn.

    My solution was careful to map the correct control when that control shows up at the top of the dynamic "device panel" in Bitwig.

    What I mean is, at first when I would touch the GR7 rec/play/dub control(touch with mouse click), then observe the last touched control inside the Bitwig device panel, sometimes that last touched (at the top of the device panel) control wouldnt be the actual rec/play/dub control.

    Its confusing, but I had to do this 3-4 times before I noticed that the GR7 rec/play/dub control is actually spread out across 2 virtual MIDI controls. Half the time, I had mapped the wrong control, so the Looper would only STOP when I hit the button, and not dub/play/rec. This was annoying and frustrating but I really wanted that mapping to work, so I kept looking closer at those controls until I noticed the weirdness.

    You must:

    1. create the macro control knob in GR7, switch that knob to MOMENTARY/BUTTON mode or it wont work!!
    2. drag the macro mapping (the 4 arrow icon) up to the very center of the Looper Pro deck A (you will see a light blue highlight next to the control being mapped) and release. You should see the macro mapping light up.
    3. carefully single mouse click the macro button, observing that this control now shows up at the top of your Bitwig device panel for that channel. Right click that control inside the device panel, which should read "Macros: rec/play/dub" and "map to controller or key."
    4. uhg how can I make the NI forum editor stop doing bullet points??? I cant stop it. Shift-enter doesnt stop it. Anyway... this manner of mapping a macro to rec/play/dub and *verifying* the control it mapped should work. The mapping sticks, and I dont have to re-map on project close/open.
  • Doedel
    Doedel Member Posts: 3 Member

    MIDI learn works fine for me, in either standalone mode or as VST3 in Cubase 12. In "standalone" you must make sure to configure the MIDI input source in the setup of GR7. When you use a DAW you need to route your MIDI input device correctly through the DAW (each DAW might be a bit different). Most of the time this is the reason why things are "not working". In Cubase for example you can add the MIDI monitor tool as an insert in the MIDI track your MIDI input device is routed on. This allows you so see the incoming MIDI commands. If nothing comes in the routing isn't right yet. Especially in Cubase you have to enable the "Monitor" function for the "MIDI controller" track (little speaker button). The output of the track needs to be routed to the audio track where you inserted GR7.

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