KK software improvements. We do NOT need new S-series MK3 KK Keyboards...

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nightjar
nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
edited August 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

The keybed, encoders, buttons on the current MK2 S-series keyboard are fine.

All that needs a MASSIVE change is the KK software.

I hope we do NOT get new MK3 keyboards that side-step the crucial need to dramatically improve the KK software.

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  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 1,106 Guru
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    You may not need them - but others might. And I know that NI would love to put them out there.

    Agreed that KK needs to be addressed.

    But I do hope IF KK does get addressed - those of us who do have the older boards are not left behind with whatever functions a "new" keyboard might allow within KK.

    Like a LONG overdue firmware update for my S61MK2.

    VP

  • holonology
    holonology Member Posts: 78 Helper
    edited August 2023
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    Obviously this one is on Native to decide what to do. But I would hope that those who have made do with Komplete Kontrol would have something nice coming their way. I don't think it would go down well for existing users to have their loyalty rewarded by being locked out of a new software approach.

    As for new hardware, I don't know this for sure, but I feel that the current line up (Maschine, S-Series) may stay somewhat as it is. Native have talked about "unifying things" for a while, and so a Kontakt/Komplete Kontrol centre that is completely new (to work with a new hardware) but that works with old hardware too would be the sweet spot.

    I think this is a functional thing (a browser) and should be available and work with all existing products, rather than a paid upgrade. My feeling is that what Native misses is an all in one controller (like Novation, Akai, Arturia) and the new hardware will be aimed there.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,311 Expert
    edited August 2023
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    Loyalty is not something that gets valued by NI.

    Think only about owning multiple HWs and having to pay for the same softwares you already own over and over again (and this is only ONE example)

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,644 Expert
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    Not sure you speak for EVERYONE in regards to what we all want or do not want, you should change your statement to "I do not want...."

    However, if the next hardware release will have ipad support, does that change your mind?

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
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    Performance and Midi controller functions handled within the hardware's "brains" is something that should have been there all along... I wonder if some of this is possible within some under-utilized potential of the current Mk2 version???

  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 2,624 admin
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    @nightjar what would be a killer feature for S-series MK3 that would make you change your mind, on top of performance/midi controller functions?

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
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    I currently own 4 NI controllers: S88MK2, S49MK2, A25, M32

    I do NOT want pads, faders, more encoders - just to make that clear.

    Hardware changes that would be make me sell current gear and buy MK3 version: Nothing I can think of.

    Software changes that would make me sell current gear and buy competitive products: Weak effort to make huge improvement to the overall User Experience of KK software.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
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    To offer you a KK SOFTWARE innovation that would compel me to whole-heartedly jump for joy would be a new approach to finding sounds to work with based on machine-learning analysis of NKS audio previews. Tagging sounds manually with descriptive words based on clumsy categorization feels like 20 years ago....

    Getting a User Interface & User Exprience for this new approach for finding sounds must be "semi-perfected" first on a desktop screen. Only then should a MK3 hardware be designed to offer the best knobs, buttons and display to support "remote control" of the desktop screen.

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 454 Guru
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    On top of hardware performance and midi functions:

    New version of KK software, which would

    • work full screen in HiDPI mode with large, detachable preset browser
    • allow for semi-automatic rudimentary conversion of non-NKS VSTi synth patches to NKS
    • allow to merge preset and user NKS library into one
    • allow for user NKS synths to have icons, without the need for hacks.


  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,865 mod
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    'a new approach to finding sounds to work with based on machine-learning analysis of NKS audio previews'

    Sorry but I still think that would be a disaster - I strongly suspect I would be constantly having to go through everything the AI has tagged to fix stuff, even more work. I would rather trust my own judgement than AI any day.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,865 mod
    edited August 2023
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    Detachable preset browser - absolutely - it's silly that the browser part changes size with the plugin, I like how the KK interface wraps to the plugin size but not that it takes the browser with it so I am all for decoupling them providing we don't get what Kontakt 7 has where you can only see one or the other but not both at the same time.

    Import would be great - at least it's feasible for plugin native formats like .vstpreset - obviously less so for proprietary ones. After all Maschine (although not KK but it should) can already 'read' those so batch conversion should be technically not that difficult to implement.

    Merging Factory and User content is a bad idea imho - too much danger of losing your own stuff when the plugin gets updated (pretty much all developers keep factory and user content separate for that reason). However search could cover both sides of the library and that would do what I think you want just as well.

    To be realistic there will probably always be a need for hacks of some sort - icons come automatically with plugins and content that is 'NKS Ready' - but that will never be (even in NI's wildest fantasies) all plugins and all developers. So there will always be a need for the community to roll our own at times, I just hope NI continue to provide us with the tools to do that and that any new version of KK doesn't close that avenue down. My major wish for the next version would be for NI to take on board us users' need to author our own content and make the tools more accessible and powerful (eg authoring banks not just tagging, rearranging user pages, more powerful editing options)

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
    edited August 2023
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    Machine learning analysis of the spectral/time domain of generated audio will be very objective in finding the sonic characteristics we will seek in new sounds. Far faster and more powerful than human based tagging that needs to be "burned in" to a library rather than remain fluid.

    The medical industry is quickly embracing having diagnostic X-rays analyzed by AI.

    The huge amount of presets that exist and are generated as new need to be managed with such an approach. It will be a much better way to find and create the sound we want.

    We need NKS 2.0 that embraces the industry-leading vision that NI claims to have.

    Every sound in the universe could instantly become NKS-ready.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,865 mod
    edited August 2023
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    Every sound in the universe could instantly become NKS-ready.

    Not really - the tagging is nice to have but it's the controller mapping and integration that make stuff NKS ready mainly. For many plugins I'm perfectly happy to just have basic tags like 'Bass' 'Pad' etc.

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 1,305 Guru
    edited August 2023
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    automatic controller mapping and integration would be part of NKS 2.0 and based on the machine-learning sonic analysis of the generated audio and a separate scripted analysis of instrument/fx parameters that creates a meta file for that instrument/fx

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