Kontakt 7 Microtuning

HuChaaku
HuChaaku Member Posts: 1 Newcomer
edited February 2023 in Kontakt

Well Native instruments removed micro tuning a fundamental function. Wonder is this end all be all. I would like them to add this feature back in a near future update.


Bummer

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Comments

  • Gee_Flat
    Gee_Flat Member Posts: 906 Guru

    What a vague and obtuse comment. Explain.

    How is it fundamental? I never use it, or am I unaware that it's an underlying element in the instruments I use?

  • meru_es
    meru_es Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    Explain.

    Microtonal is just as fundamental to microtonal music composers as a guitar is for rock bands.

    Regarding the OP, i assume they mean that Kontakt Factory Library 2 doesn't allow editing (presumably because Native UI is still in closed alpha), which incidentally makes it impossible to load the factory tuning scripts.

    How is it fundamental? 

    For anyone who relies on microtuning scripts (or any custom script at all for that matter), this is a major step backwards compared to the previous factory library (that is no longer obtainable from this website).

    While 12-tone Equal Temperament is prevalent in Western music today... Music from the Renaissance and Baroque eras used meantone temperaments. Other cultures around the globe use radically different tunings (see Maqam, Carnatic music, Gamelan). Electronic music has allowed a lot of microtonal experimentation, from Wendy Carlos through Aphex Twin to the likes of Dolores Catherino and Zhea Erose, there certainly is a "xenharmonic" music scene. There's also other contemporaneous composers like Jacob Collier using just intonation in subtler ways.

    In conclusion:

    I absolutely agree with OP, tuning is fundamental to music and lack of control over it is a bummer. Specially for an instrument that is meant to be an universal sampler.

    This is a problem with the new factory library, and all the the libraries that cannot be edited at all. It also is a problem with the libraries where inserting the microtuning script stops the instrument from making sounds - the least thing a musician wants to do mid-session is debugging a script.

    I think microtonality (or in it's in absence, MPE to enable devices like Abletons' Microtuner and Bitwig's micropitch to work polyphonically) should be given more importance in the Kontakt ecosystem.

  • jwchamb
    jwchamb Member Posts: 2 Member

    Tuning is a fascinating subject which seems to be largely ignored in Western music education. Did you ever wonder why there are 12 notes per octave? Why semitones are multiples of the 12th root of 2? Why the only interval that is perfectly in tune is the octave? Hint: not because it sounds good.

    The harmonic structure of a given instrument can be different for each pitch it produces, as well as being different from other instruments that are sounding at the same time. Microtuning allows access to a wider pallet of of colors of consonance and dissonance. Tuning for a particular harmonic setting can improve the character of a piece of music. For non-western instruments or samples of things that are not normally used as instruments, microtuning can give a more vibrant, authentic, real sound, whereas 12-tET sounds artificial, flat, muzak-like.

    Synthesizers and tuning software are actively being developed and available for download on the internet. Sadly NI seems to have chosen to remain ignorant of this aspect of music.

  • battaglia01
    battaglia01 Member Posts: 1 Member

    It still seems to work here and I'm on NI 7. What has changed? Is the problem that the factory library doesn't let you use scripts?

    For those asking why this is important: gee I dunno, one reason is that not having it is a big "f you" to literally all of the Middle East? This isn't "niche" "experimental" music - go turn on Arab Idol and listen to what they're playing for a few minutes. Without microtuning support you literally can't play any of the music on there in Kontakt. Basically a giant middle finger to 400 million people who all grew up listening to this kind of stuff, and all the musicians from there.

  • hideya.a
    hideya.a Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    It's really terrible, I want something done about my loss after purchasing it.

  • gregory_taylor
    gregory_taylor Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    The apparent removal of microtuning in the new Kontakt is a complete deal-breaker for me as someone who's worked with Just Intonational variants of Central Javanese tunings for many many years, and used Kontakt in no small measure in the pursuit of that goal.

    In an era where so many are seeking to listen, learn, internalize and create more widely and so much of the rest of the world operates outside of 12-tone Equal Temperament, this seems ethnocentric in the extreme... Tone Deaf, as it were.

  • ChrisV
    ChrisV Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    Removal of microtonal tuning natively in Kontakt is a deal breaker for me as well.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,725 mod
    edited January 24

    Apart from Absynth, which was way ahead of its time, NI plugins have always been kindof sucky when it comes to microtonatilty, or even alternative tunings. Even when you can access the microtonal script it gives you a “curated” but limited list of tunings and adding your own custom ones is a pain. Many of the factory 2 and more cinematic instruments also have a built in very limited list, but again no options for customisation, same with Komplete Kontrol’s play assist scale feature. NI need to adopt a common standard like MTS-ESP to enable seamless microtonality in all their instruments. It’s an anachronism given how many of their products are meant to be aimed at serious composers, how many serious composers want to limit themselves to Western scales?

  • NoahJordan
    NoahJordan Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    is there anyway to revert to Kontakt 5 or 6?

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 277 Pro

    There may be a slight misconception. No-one has "removed" microtuning from Kontakt. The problem is with the instruments - Factory Library 2 doesn't allow editing, so you can't instal the Kontakt's microtuning script (or any other script). Changing the Kontakt version will make no difference (except FL2 won't run at all)

    (not my scene at all, but the Microtuning script looks pretty easy to use?)

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,725 mod
    edited January 25
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/128479#Comment_128479

    Yeah and as I said Factory Library 2 instruments do have a very limited range of alternate scales built in, maybe to compensate?

    Screenshot 2024-01-24 at 17.48.13.png

    Although a smaller list than is in the Microtuning script - plus with that you can create your own although imho nowhere near as easily as something like Scala import or MTS-ESP

    Screenshot 2024-01-24 at 17.49.38.png


  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 277 Pro

    Interesting.

    You've stimulated me to apply key-based temperaments to my western-type music and though I'm at an age when pitch perception gets a bit dicey, I think it does sound better.

    What would you like to see - how would you want microtonal adjustments to affect the music? (with examples?)

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