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Closed Threads in Ideas section...

Stevan Member Posts: 589 Saw

What is the quote you guys expected then?

Instead of closing threads you should work on building the community. Then you will have more wibrant forum with lots of more people upvoting ideas.

You are doing it wrong!!!!!! The Ideas/suggestions have always be useless and I for sure won't be posting any ideas anymore.



  • daveb124
    daveb124 Member Posts: 57 Tri

    this is about the pattern player ideas thread isnt it @Stevan .... NI, if you want to close it fine, but then you, who have dedicated support staff, should be splitting the "multiple ideas in one thread" out into separate threads for us.

    And mark the upvotes back on the new threads accordingly, instead of us, the community, having to do all the work for you, essentially starting again, having to encourage others to vote etc when we did all that last time when we were all on the beta, testing the new feature, when there was already momentum and debate about what we wanted to see changing.

    you are just adding in bureaucracy for the sake of it and this does not encourage participation.

  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 1,860 admin

    Hi @Stevan the guidelines that stated that there should be one idea per post only are outlined in this post here. I spotted it too late sorry about that. The idea owner is the best person to create the post imo, so they can add use cases etc. Please post new ideas there instead, thank you.

  • daveb124
    daveb124 Member Posts: 57 Tri
    edited August 2022

    well, other posts in the beta forum were split out into separate issues and ideas by community admin. And we cant add "upvotes" either to get it back to the level the original post was at when you closed it. You do realise that you have subscribers now? Therefore your level of support does need to improve to match that. I think *you* should break up the original post, into separate threads, add the votes to each (just assume they all got the same number) that would be a nice thing to do and show a new level of consideration for your paying community.

    and not upset @Stevan who is one of your most prolific mappers. You could do that, its in your power. As you said you missed the original post and let it grow to the level it is. Do this one, and stay on top of others and you may only have to do it this one time.

    please 🙏

  • Terrordisco
    Terrordisco Member Posts: 29 Sine

    This is clearly a design issue.

    I tried posting a feature request today, and what I saw was pretty demotivating.

    I started writing a description of it, but honestly, I'm a bit too tired to jump through more hoops.

    But as a professional in the field, I can state - without any qualms - that both the forum and the service guidelines that NI staff are working from (I assume) could be amended, so none of these problems happen.

    And it would probably be fairly quick and easy, and it would help you retain customers better. No hate on the NI service reps, these things should be thought out by management.

    And to be clear, closing a thread can be culturally percieved as hostile. But my suspicion is that it isn't in Germany. German society is ordered, disciplined, well structured and laid out, its citizens used to rules and adapt quickly.

    Here in iceland, half the population doesn't follow basic traffic rules, and you need staff to monitor any formation of queues, because otherwise we just kinda mob.

    And a lot of us that come to this forum are kinda on the spectrum. As nerds tend to be (even if we mask as cool DJ types).

    So a considerable chunk of the NI clientelle will have a hard time adapting to complicated rules of how you should talk and interact, dictated from above.

    Creating order in such situations, that's what design is for.

    Design hides rules behind flows and visual structure.

    I've already drafted the structural idea in my head, but really, this is professional work, NI should get someone to look over this, so I'm not gonna go into details.

    But I state, without hesitation, you can fix the forum, and make the people who use it feel better.

  • alec.tron
    alec.tron Member Posts: 60 Tri
    edited August 2022

    Re: "And to be clear, closing a thread can be culturally perceived as hostile. But my suspicion is that it isn't in Germany."

    Oh, but it is...! imo at least, coming from someone from Germany...

    In fact I raised an eyebrow and had a few ***** moments today at recent changes & actions from NI (i.e. locking feature request threads for one, as well as pop-ups after a post to a thread has resulted in not the post appearing, but a pop-up appearing instead, with the following text "Your comment will appear after it is approved." (this was half a day ago, and the post has not yet appeared and apparently every post needs to be approved...?!?).... all rather odd tbh!)


    ps. interestingly, this post went through immediately. So this new approval step might just affect the 'share ideas' forum...

  • Terrordisco
    Terrordisco Member Posts: 29 Sine

    Yeah, it's certainly not how you deal with frustration.

    Casual users are not frustrated. And they've got pirated copies of Traktor and they won't be buying the subscription.

    The people who are frustrated are a subset of the superusers. And another subset of the superusers watches how things progress.

    It's easier to just close-and-delete, but it's not the best diplomacy, nor the best tonic for the frustation within the community.

    But idk. I'm not on the customer service end. I don't know what that life is like. But this is sad to watch, for all parties involved.

  • Stevan
    Stevan Member Posts: 589 Saw

    It is not just my thread multiple ones are closed because they aren't upvoted as much as it is "required". So what are the expected numbers then?

    For each of those closed threads there will be more new people asiking for the same features - it is a loop of starting and closing threads without any progress. That clearly doesn't work.

    It hurts me to see people posting the same old ideas we are posting for years and not seeing much implemented or at all.

    It is a waste of time for users and also Admins. Or maybe all our ideas suck and we should try better.

    I guess that the revolutional idea doesn't need upvoting.

  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 1,860 admin
    edited August 2022

    @Stevan 30 votes, also outlined in the same article here. This ideas section is by no means a reflection of what the Traktor team has in the backlog. It's more to gauge the urgency of the community's demand for features, as clearly demonstrated in flexible beatgrids - which is now added to the roadmap.

    Also outlined in the same article: Even if ideas are closed, that doesn't mean they won't be considered in the future.

    As for the Pattern Players idea post, I get where you're coming from cause it already got quite a lot of votes. I'll DM you to see how we can edit that post.

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 946 admin
    edited August 2022

    We need some level of guidelines and processes for this to work. This is exactly what was missing for so many years and many voiced what was needed (process + upvoting). Capturing ideas from users isn't something we can just do casually without carefully setting things up. This means that we need to stick by what's outlined in our guidelines so we can provide the right level of information to the product team, measure interest properly and also make sure new users are picking up on the right ways of doing things.

    The guidelines aren't super complicated either, we're just asking everyone to post one idea per thread and follow this simple template (to help with what we need but if the info are presented in a different way, it's also fine):

    Version and Setup: Exact revision number of the release as well as specifics of your setup.

    As a [...]: State what type of TRAKTOR user you are.

    I want to [...]: Describe the task you want to perform. 

    So that I can [...]: Specify the goal you want to achieve. 

    @Stevan Everything is outlined in the guidelines including the amount of votes ideas you need to reach to move forward. This is the same for the one idea per thread. It's mentioned in the guidelines and adding 5-10 suggestions per thread makes the steps impossible to follow. What is the team suppose to prioritize if you have many different suggestions? How do we know what the community really wants first? How do we keep the discussion in the comment section on one topic?

    @Terrordisco Unfortunately, we need some basic processes for this to work but again if you check the guidelines, it's really not super complicated. We were a bit more flexible during Beta phase because the amount of users was a lot smaller. We want ideation to be open to everyone and this mean that now we have to be a bit more careful about the process. With that said, the idea you submitted is spot on and even beyond what we're expecting 🙏

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 946 admin

    @daveb124 We're going to check it again but unfortunately, we can't break ideas into multiple ones and assign votes as we see fit. Votes only gets triggered by members, we don't have an option to just reassign them.

    @Kaiwan_NI will check it out and see how we can keep this idea up with the right level of information.

  • Kaiwan_NI
    Kaiwan_NI Administrator Posts: 1,860 admin

    Hey @Terrordisco I approved your idea now. There's a message that says ideas will get reviewed by our team first. Maybe you simply just missed that? I'll tweak the message as well so it's clearer.

    The ideas section was not pre-moderated when it was in the beta test area, but now that it's open to the public we made a decision to mod them in order to ensure the post's quality. Cause sadly there were people who abused the ideas section and created random posts to troll.

    P.S. Speaking of quality, the details in your idea post is exactly what we're looking for.

  • Terrordisco
    Terrordisco Member Posts: 29 Sine


    I'd posted it to general first. You closed that thread, and told me to go do a new one. That's a speedbump. I'm good at writing up these things because I'm a designer, so skills for making a prospectus or pitch is a professional necessity.

    I think a system where you'd get users to help each other build up such pitches would serve the product's purposes better, it'd need to be a bit different the current setup.

    That could be a bit like how reddit does it. Everything is always up, out and public, but certain things get pushed to the front.

    Maybe "staging area" vs "ready"? That way, no negative decisions are passed down, no voices shut down, a quality control that dictates what is "front page", so to speak.

    Anyway. there's a lot to be gained from this community.

    The talent is all here. In spades. It's just a matter of the right approach.

  • Terrordisco
    Terrordisco Member Posts: 29 Sine

    Thanks for the thoughtful response. As I say, I notice the positive change, but design needs iteration, there's a way to turn speedbumps into... uh... speed-downward-slopes-that-make-everything-go-zooom? Sorry, to early for metaphores. The intent is great, perfect, but the execution is still a bit stilted.

    But as I say, this is my job, I'm very happy to make an agreement to consult :)

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 946 admin

    @Terrordisco Certainly appreciate the discussion, none of these processes are like set forever and we're happy to tweaks if it makes sense.

    You mention turning speed-bumps into downward-slopes but how would that look in practical terms?

    We tried to make this process as easy as possible taking into account the requirements from our product teams (because we want these ideas to get done as much as you) and the level of each users. We also have to take into account the amount of users visiting the area. The pre-moderated filter is also there to make sure we have high quality ideas in front of everyone and we maximize the chances of getting things done (on top of preventing abuse).

  • Terrordisco
    Terrordisco Member Posts: 29 Sine

    The weird thing about being a designer is that the ideas come easy, explaining them, that's the work. It'd take me a couple of days and some investigating of your systems and procedures to draft an idea for an execution.

    The simple gist of it is described above. Stop removing or closing posts, but create a class system of posts, where things can be edited to be upgraded, and a bunch of stuff in the interface, placed in the right places, to get the correct information to the user before they commit a lot of work.

    Also, forms might work. The suggestion post implies something that might really be a form. Or a skeleton template, that appears in the text field.

    This idea was worth at least 2000€ btw. I'll accept the equivelent in free gear instead 🤓

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